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Fritz wasn't meant as an ad hominem . Fr. Ruff has reraemfd my points in a more helpful way rather than frustration ..what we are seeing is an increased number of so-called experts rewriting history but not based on facts or using their own ideological basis to rewrite history . The whole EF-OF is a reflection of this and many here seem to be searching for a historical justification for the EF while at the same time plowing ahead pastorally. Not sure that this is helpful. And to believe that it has no impact on folks and their ecclesiology? Seems to be a rejection of lex orandi, lex credendi or a loose reinterpretation.Some other historical examples during the time period being highlighted. From Paul Bernier's Ministry in the Church :- note that priest is not a term used until the late 4th or 5th century. It is presbyter in each community- priestly or cultic language only emerges in the late 3rd century- bishops, deacons (in the early centuries you will find reference to deacons almost constantly vs. presbyters or bishops) focused on building up the community vs. liturgical prayer leader functions- by the late 5th century, what emerged was the role of presbyter shifting from function to a recognized state this impacted liturgyNot trying to misdirect the discussion but there were a number of early church developments that significantly impacted liturgy. Your discussion point on communion in the hand fit that into the time periods above.One great example story in 411, Augustine held a meeting in Carthage with 268 catholic and 279 donatist bishops. (more than in the US today) Gregory attended that meeting he came from a diocese with 17 catholics. So, in that period you had bishop-parish set up; now we have priest-parish set up. So, when you look at liturgical development, this impacts what you study and conclusions/interpretations that you reach.


these are some great posts. so it looks like myspace is the front rnuenr for getting music out there? I kind of like Vimeo. anyone else have a better suggestion?

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